mcdordad ([info]mcdordad) wrote,

Dave Winer is a Lousy Marketeer... No Offense

Recently, I'[m listening to Dave Winer explain Outliners and why they are
important. Now, I have been follwoing Dave Winer for a few years now and
I know what the full import of Outlining is in Dave's world.

You see... Dave's Outliner is a Program Editor that runs inside an
executive kernel with a database for storage. Dave's Outliner is "scriptable"... a script in his sandbox is an outline that performs magic. He has Outlines that
run major web services... outlines that can act as a PODcatcher or
a anti-spam filters. So how hard should that be to sell... how hard should it
be to give away?

Dave seems to think that the biggest audience won't care about the
programming aspects of his Outliner... so he's pushing that fact that
the Outliner can create dsitributed directories using OPML (Outline
Processor Markup Language). That's going to be a hard sell... but I wish
him luck. Poor marketing, I fear.

If Dave started telling people he was going to give away an Internet
programming tool that could make web sites... aggregate RSS feeds
from thousands of sources he'd generate a lot of anticipation for
the release of such a technology. It sounds too good to be true... like
marketing. But that's really what he's got up his sleeve.

The reality is that the sandbox for the Outliner is already out there...
waiting for a killer app. Dave's outliner may kick start the rush to
get the sandbox and learn it's secrets. Rogers Cadenhead has written
a book explaining the magic of Dave's Outliner Technology and it's programmable engine with it's object database. If fact he's giving a few copies away this week of this book at http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/

All this "OutLining" technology needs is better marketing... Only a few hundred
geeks get it currently and Dave's OPML may not be the Killer App because
he's courting a mass audience when he should be seducing the wanna be
geeks who love free software that can make cool stuff... They keep working
on grokking Perl or Python or Ruby or whatever and he could get some
portion of them to use his legacy... the Frontierkernel but frankly he's just
not a great marketer... He's just a great software guy and a futurist who
hopes to give the world what he already has... what he spent a career building: a programmable environment for processing information and
ideas... an Outliner... and so much more... anything you might be able
to envision doing with such a power. There's a learning curve and that's
why Rogers wrote his book. To open the power of the sandbox called
Frontier (and Radio when Userland sells it) and Manilla when it's used to
run a server.

Dave hopes someone will bootstrap Frontier into his Linux-based PDA...
It could happen. He'd certainly die happier if it did... he'd keep programming
away in this cool world he spent his life making and now tries to give away.

I stilll think he's a lousy marketeer... but that's OK. He hates those people
because most of them lie to you. They sell you crap that doesn't live up to
it's promises. Dave has something that exceeds our ability to comprehend it's
potential. Could you sell that? Could you give it away? You'd have to be a good
marketeer maybe.

Now... about that Killer App. Seed the hills... something will take root. Somewhere there is a mind seeking a cool tool to change the world.
Killer Apps are made by people like that... Andresen... Bricklin... Kapoor...
Winer... You?

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  • 5 comments

Anonymous

May 5 2005, 03:05:11 UTC 7 years ago

Radio UserLand is not Frontier

While Radio UserLand, Frontier and Manila share large chunks of common code, they are definitely not the same apps. You paint Radio poorly with broad brush when you say "...Frontier (and Radio when Userland sells it)..."

In fact, Radio UserLand is the app you describe when you ask Dave to give it away:

"If Dave started telling people he was going to give away an Internet
programming tool that could make web sites... aggregate RSS feeds
from thousands of sources he'd generate a lot of anticipation for
the release of such a technology."

Dave created Radio when he was at UserLand and it's living on as a commercially supported and community developed application.

Anonymous

May 5 2005, 03:24:18 UTC 7 years ago

Dave

The truth could make him a better marketeer. He pretends that he invented everything under the sun ,but the closest he has come is being part of companies that did invent things. He also claims that he will start some sort of "revolution" in journalism while using words like bullshit to describe anything good that a Republican has done. He is nothing but a biased con artist that likes to pretend his almost useful programs change the world.
Dave's world is a sad one.

Anonymous

May 5 2005, 12:47:07 UTC 7 years ago

RE: Dave and Outliners

Previous commenter RE: Dave--

Please don't stoop to personal attacks when arguing for or against a point--in this case Dave's marketing process. If you feel that strongly, write it on your weblog and send him an email.

Dave's apps are not "almost useful", instead they are outstanding examples of simplicity. An outline is something most people can understand. His programming language, UserTalk, relies on a "top down" hierarchy. Therefore, the outliner is the bridge for the average user to cross when they are ready to automate, script and even program in the executive environment, whether it's Frontier, Manila or Radio.

I've used Radio for nearly 3 years and it's taken this long to understand elegance of the infrastructure. Once you are inside it, create something for it and evangelize it--you never want to go back. Thanks for your work on UserTalk and the outliner, Dave. It's made a fundamental difference in my life.

Signed,

Steve Kirks
http://houseofwarwick.com

Anonymous

May 5 2005, 23:44:38 UTC 7 years ago

Re: Dave and Outliners

Its not an attack it is simply the truth. His programs dont do anything that wasnt done better many years ago. He also is extremely biased. If he told the truth he would be a much better marketer. I hope he can find the courage to do that.

Anonymous

January 4 2011, 13:54:30 UTC 1 year ago

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